Final Minutes
ASHRAE Annual Meeting
Honolulu, Hawaii
June 24, 2002
1. Call to Order,
Welcome, Introductions
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Terry Cornell. All persons present were introduced and the Chair reviewed the agenda.
2. Meeting Attendance
Members:
Terry Cornell (Chair), Klas Haglid (Vice-Chair/Secretary), Bill Thomaston (Handbook Chair), Jim Poulos (Research Chair), Alex Sleiman (Membership Chair), Kirk Bond (Standards Chair), Carl Hiller, Nance Lovvorn
Not in attendance: Michaela Martin (Program Chair),
Corresponding Members:
John Shonder (e-mail; shonderja@ornl.gov), Wayne Webster
Visitors:
Henry Manczyk (Handbook Committee)
8 out of 9 members were present
3. General
The minutes from the Atlantic City meeting were approved as submitted.
4.
Chairman’s Report (Terry Cornell)
Handbook Discussion: There is a movement to modify the Handbook to be more practical. The highly technical materials will still be available from ASHRAE, however they will be offered in a different format. Discussion was put forth to eliminate the financial mathematical models and reference outside sources for this information.
August 2 is the deadline for program submissions and August 9, 2002 for final program corrections and submittals.
It was discussed referencing NIST analysis and sensitivity analysis of life cycle costing or further developing the mathematical modeling of building life cycle costing.
Our work
statement, Interactive Web-based Owning and Operating Cost Database, was, was
approved for bidding. All together, the
Research Activities Subcommittee (RAS) reviewed 14 Work Statements during the
Honolulu Meeting. Five, including ours,
were approved and will be added to those already in the “approved, but on hold”
category for distribution as requests for proposal (RFP). These will be re-prioritized and those, for
which funds are available, will be released for bidding. Those remaining will be held and will go out
for bid at a later date, as research funds become available.
ASHRAE would like a heads up or warning of 5 to 10 year research needs, so that these research needs can be incorporated into future handbooks.
Handbook changes need to discussed and finalized with phone meeting with submittal by April for publication in a given year. An effort will be made to address changes during the winter meeting to expedite possible needed changes.
Bill Thomaston will contact person at NIST for possible involvement.
John Shonder would like to move towards member status for TC 1.8.
5. Research Subcommittee
Report (Jim Poulos)
“Interactive Web-Based Owning and Operating Cost Database” was approved by ASHRAE.
We are waiting for news that the project is funded. Jim Poulus, Klas Haglid and Michaela Martin will work on this PMS.
It was discussed that contracts for projects will govern payment of contractors, unless TC states otherwise
The idea is to get enough information to upgrade the information to tables 3 and 4 in the chapter handbook.
We need to review our methodology for surveys and methods to capture information. Have a statistician to review our survey or methodology to verify statistical relevance of proposes surveys. Possibly someone from Oak Ridge as discussed by John Shonder (e.g.., Rich Schmoyer).
Using the Delphi method was presented by Wayne Webster and discussed as a possible method to verify sampling method. Carl Hiller recommended using the scientific method to verify sampling method.
The handbook was submitted on time and was well received.
Bill stated the financial section is still in question and recommendations for upgrading this part of the chapter will be considered as submitted. There was discussion about further evaluating sensitivity factors as they affect the different variables as relevant to owning and operating costs.
R.S. Means has published an estimating guide,
"Facilities Maintenance & Repair Cost Data." Much of the HVAC related costs are based on
data collected by the US Army/Navy during the
1970's (costs have been escalated to current
equivalents). This data source should
be identified in the Handbook
Bruce Hunn requested that we add geographic, operation and maintenance weighting factors. Handbook responded by adding atadotal information as relevant to limitations and geographic, operation and maintenance weighting factors.
Terry put forth that we should focus every year on one item and focuses on the study and really provides depth on each item or category.
From Atlantic City Conference;
Forum 20 – Simulated Data v. Measured Data for O&M Costs, What Do You Want?
Moderator: Klas Haglid
Forum Notes;
Much of the feed back from people attending helped to reinforce TC 1.8 drive for more comprehensive information with more categories.
Specifically, the following tables would be useful
Maintenance Strategy Effects
Non-Destructive Testing
Schedule Maintenance
Maintenance as Needed
Different Labor Forces Used
Quality of Labor Used
Forum 8 – Methods for Estimating Maintenance Costs
Moderator: Jim Poulos
Forum Notes;
Moderator summarized the existing situation regarding the table in the Handbook and the work the TC has been doing to the point in attempt to update the data.
Table 4 was at issue, along with age of material in chapter.
Honolulu Meeting;
Did not get forum approved for Hawaii. ASHRAE cited that other TC needed to have their turn and TC 1.8 had been approved for several forums and programs in recent meetings.
Chicago Meeting – Michaela will put forth and get a seminar approved
.
“FEMP life cycle costing, what is the value for life cycle costing”. – Worksheets of different types of equipment. FEMP work sheets on equipment, for example on centrifugal chillers.
“What is the importance of Sensitivity analysis in Life Cycle Costing”
Possible Future Meetings;
Kansas City as a possibility
Chair by: Klas Haglid
Symposium;
“The Truth
and Nothing but the Truth. ESPC versus
Appropriated Funds.” John Shonder for Oak Ridge National
Laboratory. John will try to line up several other papers.
8. Section Liaison Reports
TC 1.5, Wayne Webster, Does the TC want to piggyback ORNL’s work with the 1.5 seminar?
Std 90.1 (Nance) the committee is always looking for research support for 90.1. They are working on several addenda. Most of the contention is with Std. 62, and the residential component on ventilation requirements. SSPC 90.1 has over 60 voting members, 30 members voted to reconsider the standard.
Alex Sleiman-liason with the
following sections, gave concise reports as follows;
6.1 Pipe fitting and piping issues were discussed.
6.2 Discussed combined heating and cooling plants. District heating and cooling issues were discussed.
TC-9.9 on the Impact of Commissioning HVAC systems on life cycle cost. Our role would be in helping TC9.9 develop a scope of work that is achievable. The location of the draft work statement is at:
http://www. marbek.ca/tc99/, if anyone wants to review it.
RTAR had been dropped due to difficulty of implementation.
There was a change of direction going back to more traditional approach to building commissioning. Discussions of commissioning all parts of a building and coordinating this with other sections.
9. Old Business
Terry encouraged more Journal articles.
Terry stated that article as provided by Carl was well received and provided good visibility for TC 1.8 in the ASHRAE committee.
10. New Business
ASHRAE Standards Referenced in Codes- Terry stated this was not directly tied to our TC.
Technical Bulletins – There will be possible future involvement of TC. Terry stated this is conceptual at this time. Possible define the approach an engineer would take to evaluate life cycle costs for a building. Terry stated this was already well defined. There is a movement to do this for all chapters or sections of the Handbook.
Kirk Bond put forth that possibly we should address the needs of a typical facilities manager and what they really need to do to run a central plant. Possibilities for Forums and possible joint committees work with for example TC 1.7 Operations & Maintenance Management.
Krik Bond volunteered to be TC 1.8 liaison to the ASHRAE Learning Institute.
11. Meeting Adjourned
Membership Information
Terry Cornell (Chair) tcornell@gard.com 847-698-5689
Klas Haglid (Vice-Chair/Secretary) klashaglid@aol.com 201-447-1839
Bill Thomaston (Handbook Chair) BTHOMAST@ENERGEN.COM 205-326-8124
Jim Poulos (Research Chair) jimpoulos@bpe-inc.com 770-270-0100
Alex Sleiman (Membership Chair) alex.sleiman@districenergy.com 651-297-8955
Kirk Bond kirk.bond@pnl.gov 816-587-0322
Carl Hiller chiller@davis.com 530-758-3035
Nance Lovvorn
Not in attendance: Michaela Martin (Program Chair)
John Shonder shonderja@ornl.gov 865-574-2015
Gus Foster
Paul Halyard
Wayne Webster
Henry Manczyk (Handbook Committee)
E-Mail List: tcornell@gard.com, klashaglid@aol.com, BTHOMAST@ENERGEN.COM, jimpoulos@bpe-inc.com, alex.sleiman@districenergy.com, kirk.bond@pnl.gov, chiller@davis.com, shonderja@ornl.gov