Meeting Minutes

AMERICAN SOCIETY OF HEATING, REFRIGERATING AND AIR-CONDITIONING ENGINEERS, INC.

1791 Tullie Circle, N.E./Atlanta, GA 30329

404-636-8400

TC/TG/TRG MINUTES COVER SHEET

(Minutes of all TC/TG/TRG Meetings are to be distributed to all persons listed below within 60 days following the meeting.)

TC/TG/TRG NO.: 1.8 DATE: July 29, 1998

TC/TG/TRG TITLE: Owning and Operating Costs

DATE OF MEETING: June 22, 1998 LOCATION: Totonto, ON

MEMBERS PRESENT

YEAR APPTD

MEMBERS ABSENT

YEAR APPTD

EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS AND ADDITIONAL ATTENDANCE

Wayne Webster

Sheila Hayter

Dave Guckelberger

Terry Cornell

Kirk Bond

Carl Hiller

Peter Rojeski

Christine Kjellman

Corresponding Members

Joe Watson

Bill Thomaston

Alex Sleiman

Nance Lovvorn

Visitors

Tom West

William Warren

J.B. Singh

Klas Haglid

Madan Singh

Gustav Fostor

Harvey Sachs

Doug Cane

DISTRIBUTION:

ALL MEMBERS OF TC/TG/TRG

TAC Chair: Erv Bales

TAC SECTION HEAD: Ed Gut

RAC Research Liaison: Dick Pearson

ALL COMMITTEE LIAISONS AS SHOWN ON TC/TG/TRG ROSTERS:

Program Committee: Sally McInerny

Journal: Rodney Lewis

Handbook: Ron Shelton

Standards: Amanda Meitz

Staff (Research): Bill Seaton

Staff (Standards): Jim Heldenbrand

Staff (Tech. Services): Clarie Ramspeck

ADDITIONAL DISTRIBUTION: TC 1.8 corresponding members not attending meeting

ASHRAE TC/TG/TRG ACTIVITIES SHEET

DATE: July 19, 1998

TC/TG/TRG NO.: 1.8 TC/TG/TRG TITLE: Owning and Operating Costs

CHAIRMAN: Wayne Webster VICE CHAIRMAN: Joe Watson SECRETARY: Sheila Hayter

TC/TG/TRG MEETING SCHEDULE
Location-Past 12 Months		Date		Location-Planned Next 12 Months		Date
San Francisco, CA Boston, MA		1/19/98 6/30/97		Seattle, WA Chicago, IL		6/21/99 1/25/99
TC/TG/TRG SUBCOMMITTEES
Function				Chairman
Handbook Program Research				David Guckelberger Kirk Bond Joe Watson
RESEARCH PROJECTS-CURRENT
Project Title	Contractor		Monitoring Comm. Chpt.		Report Made At Meeting
Impact of Staff Training on Operating and Maintenance Costs RP 929, HVAC Maintenance Costs	Engineering Interface, Ltd. ADM Associates		Wayne Webster Joe Watson		Technical paper going through ASHRAE review/publication process Final summary report will be submitted to the PMS for review by September 1998
LONG RANGE RESEARCH PLAN
Rank Title	W/S Written		Apprv.		To R&T
1. Data Collection Procedures 2. HVAC Operating Costs 3. HVAC System Installed Costs 4. Replacement Intervals and Service Life for HVAC Equipment and Systems 5. Operating and Maintenance Design and Documentation	No No Draft No No		No No No No No		No No No No No

(OVER PLEASE)

HANDBOOK RESPONSIBILITIES
Year & Volume	Chapter Title	No.	Deadline	Handbook Subcom Liaison
2003 Applications	33 Owning and Operating Costs		New revision cycle began at June 1998 meeting	Ron Shelton
STANDARDS ACTIVITIES-List and Describe Subjects
none
TECHNICAL PAPERS from Sponsored Research-Title, when presented (past 3 yrs. present & planned)
Impact of Staff Training on Operating and Maintenance Costs – paper currently being reviewed HVAC Maintenance Costs – paper currently being reviewed
TC/TG Sponsored Symposia-Title, when presented (past 3 yrs. present & planned)

TC/TG Sponsored Seminars-Title when present (past 3 yrs. present & planned)
The Impacts of Building Commissioning on Owning and operating Costs - June 1995, San Diego, CA Community Energy Systems - Infrastructure that Pays - June 1995, San Diego, CA Electric Utility Deregulation and Its Impact on Users - February 1996, Atlanta, GA Rebuild America, Opportunities in a New Federal Energy Program - June 1996, San Antonio, TX Avoiding Other’s Mistakes in Performance Contracting – January 1997, Philadelphia, PA Relevance of ASHRAE’s Owning and Operating Costs Data-Building Owner’s Views – January 1999, Chicago, IL Service Life Issues – January 1999, Chicago, IL
TC/TG Sponsored Forums-Title, when presented (past 3 yrs. present & planned)
Why Isn’t Life Cycle Cost Analysis Widely Used? - February 1996, Atlanta, GA Owning and Managing an Operating and Maintenance Database – January 1999, Chicago, IL
JOURNAL PUBLICATIONS, when published (past 3 yrs. present & planned)
Article on service life versus age at death of HVAC equipment will be submitted

Submitted By: Sheila J. Hayter, secretary for TC 1.8

TC 1.8, Owning and Operating Costs

Meeting Minutes

June 22, 1998

Toronto, ON

Action Items

Person Responsible	Action Item
All	Review summary of revisions for next handbook chapter (Appendix A). Give additional revision ideas to Terry Cornell by January 15, 1998.
Harvey Sachs, Tom West, Joe Watson	Members of the new handbook subcommittee
Wayne Webster	One-page summary of research project, "Operating and Maintenance Design and Operation." Submit draft to Joe Watson by December 31, 1998.
Terry Cornell	Draft a work statement summary for a new research project on identifying the data collection procedures required to include independent data sources in a database (see Appendix B, part 4.)
Joe Watson	Chair seminar for January 1999, "Relevance of ASHRAE’s Owning and Operating Costs Data – Building Owner’s Views"
Wayne Webster	Chair seminar for January 1999, "Service Life Issues"
Kirk Bond	Chair forum for January 1999, "Owning and Managing an Operating and Maintenance Database"
Wayne Webster	Relay comments to Section 1.0 section head regarding charging program speakers and session chairs a registration fee for ASHRAE meetings.
Terry Cornell, Kirk Bond, Joe Watson	Investigate potential development of a TC 1.8 web site
Sheila Hayter	Give Wayne Webster names of those attending the TC 1.8 meeting who are interested in becoming voting members
All	Submit Journal articles to ASHRAE.

Meeting Minutes

Wayne Webster (TC 1.8 chair) called the meeting to order at 2:15 PM. Attendee introductions were made. Members approved the January 1998 (San Francisco) meeting minutes.

Welcome back Tom West after nearly 15 years of absence from the committee. We are glad to have you back!

Handbook Subcommittee Report

Terry Cornell (handbook subcommittee chair) reminded members that a final revision of the 1999 Applications Handbook chapter 33 was submitted after the January 1998 (San Francisco) meeting. We are now starting a new chapter revision cycle. Terry has discussed with Dave Guckelberger (former handbook subcommittee chair) revisions that were recommended but not included in the recently submitted chapter. These revisions are included in Appendix A. Terry asked that if anyone has additional ideas for revisions to please let him know before the January 1999 (Chicago) meeting. The new handbook subcommittee members will be Harvey Sachs, Tom West, and Joe Watson.

Research Subcommittee Report

Joe Watson (research subcommittee chair) summarized the research subcommittee meeting results. Minutes of this subcommittee meeting are included in Appendix B.

Terry Cornell stated that a goal of TC 1.8-sponsored research projects should be to create a database that can be used to update the tables in the handbook chapter. Presently, these tables are based on 1983 data.

Harvey Sachs stressed that maintenance cost data is the "greatest unknown" to designers. First costs are known and energy costs can be calculated. There should be guidance in the handbook on emerging technologies so designers can more accurately estimate maintenance costs of these systems. Research should be done to investigate maintenance costs of both existing and new technologies.

Four research projects are included in the research plan presented by Joe (Appendix B). Joe moved to accept these 4 projects in the order he proposed. Sheila Hayter seconded the motion and TC member voted to accept the motion.

Wayne Webster introduced a 5^th research project, "Operating and Maintenance Design and Documentation." Wayne will draft a one-page summary of this research project.

Program Subcommittee Report

Wayne Webster led the program subcommittee discussion. The following programs will be submitted in the TC 1.8 program plan. Programs are listed in the order of priority agreed to by TC 1.8.

"Relevance of ASHRAE’s Owning and Operating Costs Data – Building Owner’s Views," seminar for January 1999 (Chicago), co-sponsor with TC 1.7, Joe Watson will chair, bring speakers in from other organizations such as BOMA, discuss how tables in chapter 33 are used/misused.
"Service Life Issues," seminar for January 1999 (Chicago), Wayne Webster will chair. This seminar was discussed at the January 1998 (San Francisco) TC 1.8 meeting. Discussion notes from this meeting included the following. "The format of the seminar will be a panel discussion where after each panelist gives a short presentation there will be discussion between the panelists and the session attendees. Steve Willard, Paul Halyard, and Carl Hiller (TC 1.8 meeting attendees) agreed to be panelists for the seminar."
"Owning and Managing an Operating and Maintenance Database," forum for January 1999 (Chicago), co-sponsor with TC 1.7, Kirk Bond will chair, format will be a roundtable discussion, purpose of forum is to engage ASHRAE membership on how database tables could be accessed, maintained, and updated in the 21^st century.

Life-Cycle Cost Short Course

Several members for TC 1.8 provided reviews for the LCC short course. The ASHRAE Continuing Education Committee is now offering this course. Sheila Hayter explained that reviewers might be needed again to review material for a one-day instructor-directed coursed under development on this same topic. If members/visitors are interested in becoming reviewers for this or other CEC courses, they should contact Marty Kraft at ASHRAE (404-636-8400 or mkraft@ashrae.org).

Chair’s Report

Everyone is encouraged to write ASHRAE Journal articles. The 1998 calendar for Journal topics is listed on the ASHRAE web page (www.ashrae.org). Starting on the ASHRAE home page, click onto "ASHRAE Journal Online," then click "How to Write for ASHRAE Journal," and finally click "1998 Calendar."
Starting with the January 1999 (Chicago) meeting, program speakers and session chairs will no longer receive free registration. Instead, they will be required to pay a one-day registration fee of $85. This registration will allow them to participate in all meeting activities for the entire duration of the meeting, including attending the show. If the presenters/session chairs choose only to attend the session they are participating in, then they do not need to pay the $85 registration fee. TC 9.1 discussion on this issue included the following points. Wayne will relay these comments to the Section 1.0 section head.
Policy should apply only for Winter meetings because of the show.
Policy does not show appreciation for amount of work (effort) speakers put in to preparing a presentation, especially symposiums.
Should keep speakers free – they are the reason why people come to ASHRAE meetings. Can charge or reduce the fee for session chairs.
All TC’s were asked to begin considering a presence on the World Wide Web. Terry Cornell, Kirk Bond, and Joe Watson will begin investigating potential development of a TC 1.8 web site.

Other Discussion

Kirk Bond raised the issue of how the TC 1.8 meeting time conflicts with TC 1.7 subcommittee. He sees a decrease in participating in TC 1.8 because people who would be attending the meeting are participating in TC 1.7 subcommittee meetings. Those present at the TC 1.8 meeting agreed that there was a conflict but decided not to change the current TC 1.8 meeting time.

Dave Guckelberger asked for names of people who should be recognized as significant contributors to the recently submitted revised handbook chapter.

Liaison Reports

Those attending the TC 1.8 meeting gave liaison reports.

New Business

Sheila Hayter to give Wayne Webster names of those attending the TC 1.8 meeting who are interested in becoming voting members.

The meeting was adjourned at 4:15 PM.

Appendix A

TC 1.8 Handbook subcommittee

1/28/98

Revision items for the 2002 handbook

There were a few items that came up during the 1998 handbook review cycle that the handbook committee was not able to address. It is the recommendation of the committee that these items be addressed in the next review cycle.

1) Checklist. Table 1 was revised for 1998 to only include items that were discussed in the chapter. The prior version of Table 1 included many more items than the new Table 1 and it was felt that the old Table was partly used as a checklist. The problem was that as a checklist it was incomplete. The recommendation is to include a complete checklist separate from Table 1.

2) Owning to Capital. At the last minute the group decided that the word Owning was improperly used in Table 1 and that it should really be Capital. For example, Owning Costs should be Capital Costs. This change was not made because we felt that it was too risky to go through the chapter at the last minute and make the corresponding changes to the text.

3) Maintenance cost data update. It was agreed that the existing maintenance cost data is out of date and should not be included in the chapter, however, newer data is not available. A research project is in progress that will update this information but the new data was not available at the time of printing.

4) Estimates of Service life. The data is old but is probably accurate for this older equipment. The group has received several requests to update and expand Table 3. Most likely this new data will have to come from research work.

5) Service Life vs. Useful Life. Service Life is classically defined as the amount of time a piece of equipment can be expected to operate before it will need to be replaced because it has failed. Our handbook defines Service Life as what I would call Useful Life (for lack of a better term) which is the time to replacement for any of a number of reasons including, general obsolescence, technical obsolescence (higher efficiency or enhanced feature content of newer units), excessive maintenance costs or reduced reliability. In short, any of the many reasons equipment gets replaced.

We may be misleading our readers if they use our Table 3 data as what is classically called Service Life when in reality it is not. Perhaps we should also use the chapter to explain how the difference in the two types of equipment life will effect a life cycle cost analysis, i.e., if a unit is replaced because a higher efficiency unit is available, both the capital costs and operating costs will be effected.

Appendix B

Research Subcommittee Meeting Minutes

TC 1.8 Building Owning and Operating Costs

Toronto, Canada

June 22, 1998

Meeting was called to order at 2:45 pm
Sign-up sheet was completed with 11 attendees
Taghi Alereza of ADM Associates presented the status of the HVAC Maintenance Costs research project

Data collection has been completed. 355 sites are included. In addition, a retail store association presented data for eight major chains which included nearly 18,000 stores
Work remaining includes analysis of the data to identify statistical correlation’s between maintenance costs and building types, system types, etc.
Contractors will be contacted for maintenance pricing as a means of verification of findings
A final summary report will be submitted to the Project Monitoring Subcommittee for review by September
A technical paper is planned for the winter meeting in January

An extended discussion was held on how to maintain a dynamic database to allow additional data to be added over time

Harvey Sachs of the Geothermal Heat Pump Consortium offered extensive data on maintenance costs of geothermal heat pumps. ADM stated that they would be willing to accept data for inclusion in their report up to the middle of July
In order to maintain a dynamic database after the report is completed, it was decided that a research project will be undertaken to identify the data collection procedures required to include independent data sources in the data base. This will be particularly helpful for including niche or new products within the database. Terry Cornell volunteered to draft a work statement summary sheet for the project.

A new research plan priority list needs to be submitted by August of this year. Priorities were identified as follows:
"Data Collection Procedures" Terry Cornell
"HVAC Operating Costs" Terry Cornell
"HVAC Systems Installed Costs" Joe Watson
"Replacement Intervals and Service Life for HVAC Equipment and Systems" Joe Watson
"Operating and Maintenance Design and Documentation" Wayne Webster
A discussion of programs that might assist in the development of these work statements was held, leading into the program subcommittee meeting.

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