TC 7.8 Committee Meeting Notes

ASHRAE Summer 2004 Meeting – Nashville, Tennessee

Monday – June 28, 2004, 2:15 - 4:15 PM, Presidential Boardroom A

Draft 10/4/04

I.                  General

A.                  Chairman Klas Haglid called the meeting to order at 2:32 pm.

B.                  Meeting Attendance

1.        Members and Corresponding Members In Attendance: Klas Haglid, Jim Poulos, Matt Mullen, , John Schonder, Michaela Martin, Alex Sleiman, Jim Earley (Georgia Power), Bill Thomaston (Alabama Gas)

2.        Members not in attendance:), Bruce Lindsay, Wayne Webster, Richard Jones, Kirk Bond Wayne Robertson

3.        Guests: Richard Rooley (ASHRAE President), Ian Spanswick (York International), Barry Abramson (Servidyne), Chuck Dale-Derks (McClure Engineering), Ken Gillespie (Pacific Gas & Electric), Gary Debes – Handbook Liason, David McAllister – ASHRAE Technology Manager, Nance Lovvorn

4.        Roll Call/Quorum – no quorum as only 4 of 8 voting members present

C.                  Agenda Review

D.                 Anaheim, California Meeting Minutes Approval – deferred to a lack of quorum

II.                Chair’s Report (K. Haglid)

A.                  Announcements: TC/TG Chairs Meeting, etc.

1.        Pat Hughes will be taking over for Wayne Reedy as Research Liason.

2.        Mandatory Webmaster training will be held at Orlando. Klas will tell Terry Cornell.

B.                  Action Item Review

1.        RTAR work statement

III.              Subcommittee Reports

A.                  Handbook (John Shonder)

1.        May 15, 2005 draft of handbook chapter rewrite due to be followed by a year of review before publication.

2.        Comments on the handbook chapter are welcome to John including changes, deletions and additions. Comments due to John by November 15, 2004.

3.        John will transmit the chapter electronically to Matt for distribution to committee members.

4.        Gary Debes stated that the general membership feels the handbooks have become unusable and too academic.  

5.        Table 3 Ideas coupled with 1237-RP discussion:

a.       Table 3 should use information from database to be published in table indicating the date data as pulled

b.      Provide applet link to interactive database

c.      ASHRAE could develop standard queries that members could use to search the data.

B.                  Research (Jim Poulos)

1.        Research Subcommittee Chairs Meeting

a.       RAC has developed RTAR/Work Statement flow chart with weighting factors for rating them.

b.      Strategic Research Plan will be out in draft form at next summer’s meeting (Denver).  Strategic Research Plan hopes to be updated on 5 year cycles.

2.        Research Project 1237-TRP – Update and discussion of sampling rates and progress

a.       Barry reviewed the summary of the project objectives and where we are in the project.

b.      Barry requested a letter to companies who have not input the data yet cosigned by Klas Haglid and current ASHRAE President asking for their expediency in completing the input.

c.      Due to recent potential conflict of interest by Jim Poulos, Jim will need to step-down as chair of the Rsearch Project, Michaela will now take-over as chair of the RP.

2.        Work Statement for RTAR 2005-47, "Addition of Unitary Equipment to Interactive Web-Based Owning and Operating Cost Database

a.       Work statement will be written by Klas Haglid

2.        Other research activities

B.                  Program (M. Martin)

1.        Orlando Seminar – The Evolution of Table 3 & 4 Jim Poulos will organize

a.       OR&L Groundsource Heat Pumps Maintenance Cost Database – John Shonder

b.      The Origins of Table 3 – Jim Poulos

c.      A Preview of The New ASHRAE Interactive Maintenance Database – Barry Abramson

2.        Denver – Potential Forum: How would members like the data presented in the new Table 3.

II.                Section Liaison Reports

A.                  TC 1.5 - Computer Applications (W. Webster)

B.                  TC 1.7 - Operating and Maintenance Management & TC 1.9 B Electrical Systems (K. Bond)

C.                  TC 1.10 - Energy Resources (S. Hayter)

D.                 TC 5.5 – Air to Air Energy Recovery (K. Haglid)

1.        Air to air heat exchangers are included on 1237-TRP database list of equipment.

E.                  TC 6.1 - Hydronic Equipment and Systems & TC 6.2 B District Energy (A. Sleiman)

1.        Did have a seminar at this meeting.

F.                  TC 7.9 - Building Commissioning

1.        Jim Poulos requested a second time to remove him from this liason role as TC 7.9 meets at the same time as 7.8.

2.        Jim will pursue getting some sort of informal liason.

G.                 SSPC 90.1 - Energy Efficient Design of New Buildings & SSPC 62.1 Ventilation and Acceptable IAQ in Commercial Buildings

1.        Nance Lovvorn is not liason but gave a report about Board Meeting yesterday.

d.      3 of 12 people who spoke at Board meeting yesterday spoke about their discomfort with 62 as it is difficult to work with and that 62 requires to much outdoor air which has led to the surging mold problem.

e.       Manufacturer spoke against ASHRAE Special Project 102 – Advanced Design Guide for Small Buildings as it is not a consensus document.  It is a peered reviewed document though.

i)                    Ken Gillespie has reviewed the draft document.  It is intended to provide engineers with a way to push the envelope on design without list.  Due to schedule limitations, some analysis could not be done which may have had the manufacturer concerned.

H.                  TC 6.6 Service Water Heating – (Jim Early)

III.              Old Business           

A.                  Journal Articles

B.                  Agreed to submit article(s) on research project results after it is completed.

C.                  Correspondence

D.                 Agenda will be sent out via email at least one month in advance

E.                  Matt will coordinate with Terry Cornell and Gard on developing a listserve

F.                  Membership Drive (A. Sleiman)

1.        No progress as Alex was on medical leave for quite a while.

2.        Ken Gillespie, Ian Spanswick, Jim Early and Chuck Dale-Derks is interested in joining committee as full members.

IV.              New Business

A.                  David McAlister asked who on staff was familiar with 1237-TRP – Jim Poulos said Steve Vaughn and Mike Comstock.  Jim Poulos will take the lead on coordinating with David McAlister.

B.                  2004/2005 Roster/Chairs

1.        Matt and Klas will coordinate with ASHRAE to update current roster.

C.                  Other New Business

V.                Adjournment

A.                  Meeting adjorned at 3:41 pm.

Attendance                                                            E-mail                                                                    Telephone

 

Members in attendance:

Klas Haglid (Chair)                                    klashaglid@aol.com                                            201-447-1839

Jim Poulos (Research Chair)                   jimpoulos@bpe-inc.com                                    770-270-0100

Matt Mullen (Secretary)                                             mullen@nemsi.com                                             860-871-1111

Michaela Martin (Program Chair)                    martinma@ornl.gov                                             856-574-8688

Wayne Robertson                                                             wayne@energyace.com                                     404-277-1590

Richard H. Rooley                           rooley@mail.ashrae.org                                     [44] 1753648040

 

 

Members not in attendance:

Richard Jones                                                       rjones@nationalengineering.com                   614-751-9610

Wayne Webster                                                   wayne.webster@sympatico.ca                         613-824-8364

Gus Foster                                                             gfcllc@comcast.net                                             609-442-0025

Paul Halyard

Bruce Lindsey                                                      blindsey@daspensys.com                                                262-796-3922

 

Corresponding Members In Attendance:

John Shonder (Handbook Chair)                                shonderja@ornl.gov                                           865-574-2015

Ian Spanswick                                                      ian.spanswick@york.com                                 717-747-0472

James Earley                                                         jwearley@southernco.com                                             770-216-1362

Bill Thomaston                                                     bthomast@energen.com                                    205-326-8124

Chuck Dale-Derks                                                 cdalederks@mcclureeng.com                           314-645-6232

Alex Sleiman (Membership Chair)                     alex.sleiman@districenergy.com                   651-297-8955

 

Corresponding Members In Not In Attendance:

Terry Cornell (Webmaster)                                         tcornell@gard.com                                            847-698-5689

Barry Amin                                                                                                                                            847-640-0732

Millard Berry                                                         cberry@cannondesign.com                                             716-773-6800

Kirk Bond (Standards Chair)                 kirk.bond@pnl.gov                                            816-587-0322

Barry Bridges                                          bbridges@sebesta.com                                      651-634-7361

Gustav Foster                                                       gfcllc@comcast.net                                             856-696-0880

Gamini Nanayakkara                                [968] 00968601654

Jay Parikh                                                              jparikh@lg.com                                                    201-736-8425

James Schlacter                                                    sales@systecon.com                                         513-777-7722

Jitendra  Singh                                                      jb.jape@verizon.net                                            609-653-2338

Dennis Smith                                                        dennis.a.smith@ee.doe.gov                              703-758-9101

Karl Stum                                                               kstum@ch2m.com                                              360-576-1848

Joe Watson                                                           jwatson@e3designs.com                                  252-255-1843

Steven Willard                                                                                                                                      505-241-4602

 

Visitors:

David McAlister                                                  dmcalister@ashrae.org                                      770-933-4230

Nance Lovvorn,                                                   nlovvorn@charter.net                                       205-980-8737

Barry Abramson                                                   barry.Abramson@servidyne.com                   770-933-4230

Ken Gillispie                                                          klg2@rse.com                                                      925-866-5329

Gary Debes (Handbook Liason)                   gary.debes@york.com                                        610-640-2308